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Kapule-Kahele, Moana Kapapakeali‘ioka‘alokai "Mona"

Kepā Maly
August 2002

The following is an excerpt from He Wahi Mo‘olelo no nā Ke‘ei ma Kona Hema, a collection of traditions, historical accounts and kama‘āina recollections of Ke‘ei, South Kona, Hawai‘i. It is used with the permission of Kepā Maly, Cultural Historian and Resources Specialist.

The excerpt has been edited by Ka‘iwakīloumoku for typographical errors only; the orthography is presented exactly as it is found in He Wahi Mo‘olelo no nā Ke‘ei ma Kona Hema.

 


 

Moana Kapapakeali‘ioka‘alokai "Mona" Kapule-Kahele (Aunty Mona) was born at Kapahukapu (Kahauloa-Nāpo‘opo‘o), South Kona, in 1921. As a child, she was raised by her grandparents and brought up in a household where Hawaiian language and cultural practices were the way of life. Kupuna Kahele is known throughout Kona (and Hawai‘i) for her knowledge of the Hawaiian language, native traditions, and practices. During the interviews (cited in this study), Kupuna Kahele shared detailed accounts of travel along the traditional ala hele (trails) and historic Alanui Aupuni of the Hōnaunau-Nāpo‘opo‘o-Keauhou region, practices associated with collection of resources from sea to mountain, and traditions of place names and land use. As a youth, her family and others of the region still maintained upland agricultural fields where kalo (taro) and other plants were grown in the shelter of the forests. At Maunalei (Kahauloa), there were two springs which the families relied upon for water and for their crops and drinking source. They also kept fields of sweet potatoes and crops on the kula (middle lands) and near their shore residence. Fishing and agriculture were their mainstays.

Kupuna Kahele’s genealogy (under the names of Kalokuokamaile, Palau, Kapule, and Ka‘ilikini) ties her to the lands of the Nāpo‘opo‘o-Ke‘ei region and other locations in Kona. For nearly 60 years, Kupuna Kahele walked the trails of Kona. She believes that respect and care for the land is the responsibility of all who travel the trails and touch the land and sea. She encourages continued use of the native trails, but believes that such use must be educated. People need to understand the sacred nature of the landscape to the Hawaiian people and travel with respect.

During each of the interviews in which Kupuna Kahele participated, she shared detailed accounts of place name origins and historical sites of Ke‘ei, Kahauloa, and the larger Kealakekua-Nāpo‘opo‘o region. Kupuna Kahele granted her release of the interviews on December 5, 2002.

KM:      . . . ‘Ae, mahalo kūkū, aloha hou, aloha iā ‘oe.

MK:      ‘Ae.

KM:      We’re going to look at these maps, like you were just looking, this is Bishop Estate Map No. 824 for the lands of Ke‘ei. You were just saying you have a different name for it?

MK:      Yes.

KM:      What is supposed to be the name, what do you understand?

MK:      The name that we know of was Kūlou.

KM:      Kūlou, ‘ae.

MK:      Because the people; over there had a habit of bowing.

KM:      Ahh.

MK:      They never look at you straight in your face when they meet you. They always bow first.

KM:      Hmm, I see.

MK:      So that’s why it was known as Kūlou.

KM:      Kūlou.

MK:      But Kiei, Kiei.

KM:      ‘Ae, Kiei.

MK:      Well that’s a different thing, that, that’s peeping tom.

KM:      ‘Ae. To peer, to peek, yeah?

MK:      Yes. Because when they see the wa‘a going outside, and they want to know who’s that. So they run in their shack and pull the thatch on the side and look who’s that. Whether good or bad people.

KM:      Ahh.

MK:      So, they had the habit of doing that, Kiei.

KM:      ‘Ae.

MK:      And then whoever took the name down, they think they heard Ke‘ei.

KM:      ‘Ae.

MK:      And Ke‘ei no more meaning.

KM:      ‘Ae. But that’s your understanding, that’s the name?

MK:      That’s what I know.

KM:      From your kūkū?

MK:      From my kūkū, and kūkū [thinking] . . . oh my goodness, Kaua.

KM:      Kaua, Pānui?

MK:      Yes.

KM:      Ohh. Yes, that was Louie or . . .?

MK:      No, no, we only called him kūkū Pānui, that’s all.

KM:      Yes, so kūkū Kaua Pānui.

MK:      Yes, Kaua.

KM:      Ohh. Very interesting. This is a wonderful map of the Ke‘ei or Kiei section because it’s the ma kai area and it shows . . . [opening map] Like we had talked before, tūtū, about the different names and areas of the land. This shows you, if you actually look on this big section. Here’s Palemanō.

MK:      Yes. [looking at map]

KM:      You told me about that before. And it has to do with the shark?

MK:      Uh-hmm. Palemanō is about the shark, too, and that’s where the sharks live.

KM:      Ahh.

MK:      Because was a cave on the outside.

KM:      On the Nāpo‘opo‘o side?

MK :     The ocean side.

KM :      Ocean side?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      You see there’s a little inlet even right in there.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      The point there, nuku, yes.

MK :      So where the ship crashed is right around here.

KM :      Ahh. Somewhere in this vicinity here on the point. Yes?

MK :      Yes, uh-hmm.

KM :      ’Cause you were telling me about the Spanish, yes?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Ahh. And that’s, here’s the little area where the one, the sandy beach was.

MK :      Right.

KM :      And the stone Haleolono, like that.

MK :      Oh boy, have you been down there lately?

KM :      No.

MK :      Nice now.

KM :      Is it, oh good.

MK :      All this area.

KM :      Cleaned up?

MK :      Hmm boy, when you look at it you don’t know whether it’s gonna come back again or what.

KM :      Hmm.

MK :      There was a heiau here.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And people were stealing the stones.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      Take ’em home for garden and . . .

KM :      Did you hear the name Kamaiko?

MK :      Kamaiko, yes.

KM :      Yes. Still has a little bit.

MK :      Kamaiko.

KM :      Okay, Kamaiko. ’Cause you walked around this ‘āina when you were young?

MK :      All, all the way down.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      Until Kīpū and beyond Ki‘ilae.

KM :      See it shows Kīpū here.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      And Ki‘ilae goes all the way out past Hōnaunau.

MK :      Right.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      And they had people you know, living here.

KM :      Oh?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Ohh.

MK :      Yes, I think was Kelekolio.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      [thinking] I think Kalili family.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      And another family.

KM :      You think out by Kīpū or further towards the Hōnaunau section?

MK :      Going towards Ki‘ilae.

KM :      Ki‘ilae, yes, so at Hōnaunau, Keōkea, Ki‘ilae, going in like that.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Hmm. You had shared with me tūtū too, you know, if we have Palemanō here.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      And then has Moku‘ōhai Bay where I guess a battle took place, at Moku‘ōhai?

MK :      Yes. Supposed to be Mokuoka‘e.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      But people, who ever wrote it down never write the right way. They think they hear or they do it their own.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      Moku‘ōhai, no.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      There’s no ‘ōhai tree there.

KM :      ‘Ae. [chuckles] Oh, very interesting, though. I guess when you were young, families were still living out here, yeah?

MK :      Yes. They had, I think I can remember some [thinking] going towards, let’s see, Kīpū side, the Kimi family, of course tūtū Kaua folks, and my aunty were living there.

KM :      Yes. Who was your aunty?

MK :      Ka‘ula.

KM :      Ka‘ula?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Ohh.

MK :      She married to tūtū Kaua’s hānai son, Louie Grace.

KM :      ‘Ae, Louie Grace. Ohh.

MK :      And then we . . . well we always go down to their place because my mother, she get farm up ma uka.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      Kanu kalo. So every time when they ku‘i ‘ai like that, she get ’em on her horse, she go down, take for her family.

KM :      So she would take down to her sister, Ka‘ula mā?

MK :      Yes because she had a lot of children.

KM :      Ohh.

MK :      So had tūtū Kaua, and they had another hānai girl, Hattie, that’s Kaliko’s mother.

KM :      Ahh yes, yes.

MK :      And then there was, who else was there . . . [thinking] it was such a full house.

KM :      A lot of people living down here.

MK :      Yes, in one house. My aunty and her children, they lived with tūtū Kaua and they lived in the front house. In the back, there’s another small house in the back, and then have these other children.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And [thinking] I forgot her name. His wife, anyways, lived behind with these other children. And then once in a while he go in the back and stay with them.

KM :      ‘Ae. Ohh.

MK :      That’s how they lived. So the ‘ai came from my family.

KM :      So, ma uka, Kahauloa ma uka, that section?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Where you folks were telling me about the māla‘ai.

MK :      Maunalei.

KM :      Maunalei, ‘ae. And so they kanu mea ‘ai like ‘ole . . .?

MK :      Yes, all up there. When time for get, she goes to get.

KM :      And were these ‘ohana, were the ‘ohana living down here in this Palemanō section, lawai‘a? Po‘e lawai‘a?

MK :      Well, for their livelihood, that’s all.

KM :      For their own family?

MK :      Yes, that’s all. Because my uncle was working for the county. But you know, those days, they go work when they feel like it.

KM :      Yes. And . . .

MK :      So it was a problem.

KM :      [chuckling] So you would walk along . . . did you ever hear that there were ilina at this Kamaiko heiau area or out along this point?

MK :      They had, they had out there, I remember one place that we couldn’t go and climb up there.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      They had all these fences like that. But there was nothing on top.

KM :      You mean?

MK :      Up here had all the ‘ili‘ili and that was nice, eh.

KM :      ‘Ae. That was out here by the heiau section?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      We couldn’t climb up there, got to stay away.

KM :      Tūtū, you’ve shared your mana‘o about ilina is pretty much to leave alone, you don’t bother?

MK :      Leave alone, yes.

KM :      That’s important. I guess like you said Mokuoka‘e or what they call Moku‘ōhai, there must have been a lot of pā ilina out there or pū‘o‘a from the battle, right?

MK :      Yes, has one at Kīpū.

KM :      ‘Ae, ohh.

MK :      And that one there is a strange one. Way inland and they have one place just like one punawai big, big area like this [indicating the size of her living room—about 20 feet across.]

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      And then in there have all the colored sand that you would think that’s glass.

KM :      Hmm.

MK :      But that’s not, it’s sand. It’s red, white, green, blue, all different colors in this puka right there.

KM :      Uh-hmm.

MK :      And then, oh when we were kids, we dig, dig, dig, we want to se the bottom if different color but no, the same thing.

KM :      Oh?

MK :      And it’s deep down. So at that time we didn’t know what it was.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And then on the outside of that they had a wall and this wall go up and then go down almost to the cliff. And then the other side, too, it comes to the trail and stops.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      Just like the other side, so the trail goes up that way till it goes in the back of that, and then comes down with this side corner, see. And right in the front of the cliff there’s a wahine, all pāhoehoe.

KM :      Oh?

MK :      Laying on the pāhoehoe her hair nice, all nice and her arms up like this [gestures arms up] two arms, and the legs hanging over the cliff.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      But all naked.

KM :      Stone form?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      In stone form?

MK :      All stone. And then they have that over there. We cannot walk on top that. If you want to go pound ‘ōpihi, you either . . . if you’re brave enough to go underneath well, some places you have to swim.

KM :      ‘Ae, ohh.

MK :      So we never took a chance unless you come on a canoe. And most times if we go on land we never go down that place. We always go in the back and then go down the other side.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      And, at that time Mokuoka‘e had some little, you know, overhang, the lava?

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      They had some bones in there.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      Then we used to think that’s animal bones, we never bother. But yet we never had cattle over there.

KM :      Right, right.

MK :      Because all what they had over there growing was the pili and what else . . . [thinking] pānini.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      That was all.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      Nothing else. But of course, Kīpū had coconut trees.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And that was the only place that had coconut trees right there.

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      And then the rest down, no more until you get almost to Ki‘ilae.

KM :      ‘Ae, ohh. Yes, in fact it says even on this 824 map, Coconut Grove here’s at Kīpū. [referencing locations on BE Map No. 824]

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      Then you get A‘ala, Ke‘omo.

MK :      Ke‘omo, yes.

KM :      Kahinu?

MK :      Kahinu, Kahinu was it Kahinu? [thinking] I think it was Kainu.

KM :      Oh yes.

MK :      Not Kahinu.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      I don’t know the way the Hawaiians say it, you know when they say it fast.

KM :      Yes, hard to tell, yeah.

MK :      Kainu . . . so. That’s what I know it as, Kainu.

KM :      Ke‘omo, I guess this is the area basically where the battleground is supposed to be.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      This section over Ke‘omo Point, like that.

MK :      Ki‘eki‘e.

KM :      Yes, Papaki‘eki‘e.

MK :      Mokuoka‘e.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And then down.

KM :      The little bay, this is where there’s a house back here now.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      The Maluhia, the YMCA camp?

MK :      Right.

KM :      Was put into here? Today, this is where Pānui’s place is. So Kaliko mā, you know?

MK :      Uh-hmm. Pānui, I think they still have that place.

KM :      ‘Ae, they do.

MK :      And then Greenwell is . . .

KM :      Well, what’s really interesting, too, here tūtū, you see this one here just below the old Alanui Aupuni this section here [pointing on map].

MK :      Right, right.

KM :      Makaiahai, and then this lot, kuleana was to Kekūhaupi‘o.

MK :      Yes, that’s where the Japanese used to live.

KM :      Hmm.

MK :      I think was Saiki, that was the Japanese that was living there. Either he was leasing that place or what. And then on this side was . . . [thinking] I forgot that Hawaiian family, so long, then they went away and you never see them no more.

KM :      Hmm. Nice though, yeah?

MK :      And I think Dr. Mitchell owns that today.

KM :      Ohh.

MK :      This and . . . yes, that portion, Dr. Mitchell.

KM :      Even had an old school, there was an old school right here, this is the old school lot.

MK :      They had a school and a church.

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      And the cement was still down there.

KM :      Oh yes.

MK :      I don’t know if it’s still there yet. But we used to play around in there, play hide and whatnot [chuckling].

KM :      Uh-hmm. So you folks, you would go holoholo, lawai‘a, visit family like that?

MK :      Yes. Oh that’s the best place for catch ‘aha‘aha.

KM :      Oh yeah?

MK :      Oh my, so easy.

KM :      This side or all around the point.

MK :      All these places.

KM :      Oh yeah, ‘aha‘aha?

MK :      Yes. Especially where they had all the sand and all that.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      That’s where ‘ōhua, and all that.

KM :      Wonderful! There’s a point here called Limu Koko.

MK :      Yes, that’s right because over there had limu koko like rubbish.

KM :      Oh.

MK :      And there’s a stone sitting outside in the water. But when you go over there, you pick all what you think you have enough, go away.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      Because if you don’t, the water going come up, up, up.

KM :      ‘Ōkaikai.

MK :      And then you won’t be able to jump up.

KM :      Oh interesting. So you go ‘ohi limu?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      A pau, ho‘i i kula?

MK :      When you see the waves kind of slapping against that rock, that’s time for you to leave, you have enough already.

KM :      Interesting.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      I was thinking that you had talked to me a little bit about Kekūhaupi‘o before.

MK :      I only know that he owned that place.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      But what happened after that, we don’t know.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      So many things happened that nobody knows, and you know how people didn’t know how to read or write. And that was the pilikia, now they come with their palapala all in haole.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And then maybe they explaining to you, it’s not what’s in the palapala, it’s different.

KM :      That’s right. Did you hear how Kekūhaupi‘o died? The old one under Kamehameha?

MK :      [thinking] No, I don’t think so. Maybe I did but, oh so much.

KM :      Yes, so long ago, too. I know I’m so amazed when we sat down and the times we’ve talked story. Your memory is so wonderful you know, and these things that you recorded, remembered from your kūkū mā talking story.

MK :      Yes.

KM:       You know did your tūtū, like tūtū Ka‘ula them, did they have māla‘ai ma uka also or they stayed ma kai?

MK:       No. They just stayed ma kai.

KM:       They stayed ma kai.

MK:       He was always ma kai. He was the head Deacon and the oldest Deacon of Kāhikolu.

KM:       Ahh.

MK:       Him and my grandfather Kalokuokamaile.

KM:       Kalokuokamaile, yes.

MK:       Both of them.

KM:       You know your tūtū Kalokuokamaile wrote in the Hawaiian newspapers a lot.

MK:       Yes.

KM:       Did you hear?

MK:       Ka Hoku.

KM:       ‘Ae, Ka Hoku o Hawai‘i.

MK:       Hmm.

KM:       Did you hear, did you know that he used a pen name, you know sometimes rather than using the real name.

MK:       Right, right.

KM:       They use a pen name. Do you remember hearing him called Palikapuokeōua?

MK:       Uh-hmm.

KM:       That was, and just like tūtū Kaua when they wrote in the newspaper.

MK:       They never write what the names they have now.

KM:       Yes, that’s right. He was Ka‘ehukaiopalemanō.

MK:       That’s right.

KM:       [chuckling] Interesting, yeah?

MK:       And then I had one cousin that was named with the last part of Palemanō.

KM:       Ahh.

MK:       [thinking] He just died not very long ago, he had a Japanese wife, his wife died first, Lawrence.

KM:       Oh Lawrence, Pānui right? Grace?

MK:       Grace. And then the oldest brother, Louie, just died about one year ago.

KM:       Hā‘ule? Aloha nō.

MK:       And the youngest one I think was Jonathan, no that’s a nephew.

KM:       Bill, William is Kaliko. He’s still in Honolulu.

MK:       Yes, Kaliko. I think he left here when he was a little boy.

KM:       Yes. Well, that’s why I was saying when we get together, ’cause we’re talking story you know, Kamehameha Schools to try and gather information so that the children can understand. The students can understand about the land. So we’re going to try and have him come up and that’s why we would like you, Uncle Kaliko.

MK:       Uh-hmm.

KM:       Cousin Maile them, we come sit down just go sit down, talk story. I’ll pick you up, we can take you over. ’Cause Nāinoa has a house out there now, Thompson.

MK :       Yes, yes he does.

KM :       So I figured maybe we could all get together, go just talk story down on the coast line there, you know.

MK :       Uh-hmm. Yes, because I went down there about a month ago at my aunty Margaret’s place and then one of the students who wanted to know more on the other side. They wanted to see where that point was.

KM :       Yes.

MK :       Because we were talking story about Spanish people.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       And then so we went down that way although the road was rough, we only could go so much because my wheelchair cannot go too far.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       So, I looked down all nice, that sand is still there like how it was.

KM :       You mean this section?

MK :       Where the bay is.

KM :       Yes, yes.

MK :       You know on the other ‘ao‘ao.

KM :       ‘Ae, ‘ae.

MK :       Used to have one radio station over there.

KM :       Yes, yes.

MK :       Long time ago. And then below that radio station had a house, that was the Hāili family.

KM :       ‘Ae, right over there?

MK :       They used to live there.

KM :       Hāili was right on this side?

MK :       Right, right.

KM :       Yes, yes.

MK :       And then [thinking] and across Kaua, and you go further down was Kimi, I only know as tūtū Kimi, he and his wife.

KM :       Uh-hmm.

MK :       And then I think they had one mo‘opuna with them, I forgot. Then the mo‘opuna was sent back to Honolulu or something. And then you keep going there was another family that was living there and that’s all. Nobody else.

KM :       Kukua was down there?

MK :       Kukua.

KM :       Kukua.

MK :       He’s way up.

KM :       Ahh.

MK :       This Kukua is from mauka Ke‘ei, middle Ke‘ei.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       If you know Sarah Kahiwa or Walter Kahiwa?

KM :       ‘Ae, yes.

MK :       Walter Kahiwa.

KM :       Walter Kahiwa, Sarah Kaupiko.

MK :       Yes, his mama.

KM :       ‘Ae, the mama.

MK :       That’s a Kukua also.

KM :       Ohh, okay.

MK :       And they lived up, middle.

KM :       Middle section okay.

MK :       Then he was hānai by [thinking] one family from Kohala and that’s where she was brought up until she was going to normal school over there, and came out as a teacher.

KM :       ‘Ae . . . I saw uncle Walter a couple weeks ago at Miloli‘i.

MK :       Hmm.

KM :       So this map you’ll enjoy tūtū.

MK :       Oh boy!

KM :       You keep this one here with you.

MK :       Na‘u kēia?

KM :       ‘Ae, you keep this, and this one is a really neat map because it’s the earliest map of all Kahauloa, the ahupua‘a boundaries out to Hōnaunau.

MK :       Hmmm.

KM :       It was surveyed in 1875. Some spelling errors but you know as I’m preparing this little study for Kamehameha Schools . . .

MK :       Can I see it?

KM :       . . . all the native testimony from the Māhele and all of the Boundary Commission testimonies so you see. [looking at map] Makai, and there’s Kahauloa you know the different areas.

MK :       Oh, this is our ahupua‘a.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       We still have ’um, here and there.

KM :       Yes. See Palau, that’s your tūtū, right?

MK :       Yes.

KM :       ’Cause that’s your kūkū, right?

MK :       Right. He was the one that was given an ahupua‘a.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       So because of all the families, and some of them never have land and all, so he looked how big the family and he gave them so much.

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       And he was the only one that did that. So these families, instead of take care the land, no they didn’t.

KM :       Ā lilo.

MK :       They like go Honolulu, they hear about Honolulu, go, go, go, go ah, no more land.

KM :       Yes.

MK :       This is right below of [thinking] oh boy, that’s the main trail anyway over there.

KM :       ‘Ae it is. Upper Government Road section.

MK :       Right, uh-hmm.

KM :       And this is the makai Alanui Aupuni that goes all the way out to Ki‘ilae and beyond like that.

MK :       Uh-hmm.

KM :       So I have all of the testimonies.

MK :       My goodness.

KM :       From the kama‘āina in the 1870s about the ‘āina that goes with this, so as soon as I finish up that report I’ll send this over to you too.

MK :       Uh-hmm. Even down the beach we still have the shares down there yet.

KM :       Good yes. Well that’s why . . .

MK :       The rest of the families they want to travel and lilo . . .

KM :       ‘Ae.

MK :       Their parents wanted to go so they went and then after that they come back and shake up the families.

KM :       [chuckling]

MK :       That’s what they’re doing to me.

KM :       Aloha.

MK :       I’m the last, and I have a sister, too, only she and I more. And our section is okay nobody could touch that, but right around us is all Bishop. And they tried to . . . you know in the beginning they tried, but they couldn’t get, because we wouldn’t give in.

KM :       Yes. I think that’s important because the land, you know, that’s your connection to your past, right, your kūpuna?

MK :       Yes. My mother had a bigger share in there because her sisters gave up, they didn’t want to live, they don’t want farm life. Then her brothers, they all went away to work and all that. So, they never tried to think about it, so left only my mother. She was the one that upheld until she got sick and then she called me. "Your turn." I said, "Okay." So now I got my girl over there.

KM :      ‘Ae. Good, that’s wonderful.

MK :      I’m up here, I cannot keep all that . . .

KM :      ‘Ae . . . When we spoke before . . .

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      You shared such important things about place names, as we were looking at the maps. Like if this is the boundary Kahauloa [looking at map].

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      And Kāneahuea right here.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      They call it Kāneahuea is the name of this place here. This comes into Kahauloa.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      Here’s you folks, Palau, Kalua where you were talking about your tūtū.

MK :      Yes all gone already. They sold the land. Either they sold it or was taken away from them.

KM :      Yes. Well I see there’s construction stuff going on over there now. I guess your cousin Maile mā live right in here Kualau section like that?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      And see here’s Kalua’s other part of the ‘āina right there.

MK :      Uh-hmm. That’s a different Kalua this one, they’re related, but far.

KM :      I see.

MK :      This one is different, that’s a different Kalua.

KM :      Yes. And like Howard Ackerman?

MK :      Yes, that’s the one.

KM :      Over here.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      Would be over here. Where Desha’s house was basically I think would be around here before.

MK :      Right.

KM :      Were there place names? I was remembering you know . . .

MK :      Keku . . . [looking at map]

KM :      Kekukui.

MK :      [thinking] Was there a Kekukui down here?

KM :      But see this is old Māhele land, that was 1848. Maybe Kekukui pau by the time you know.

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      This is . . .

MK :      Kekuapuhi.

KM :      Kekuapuhi.

MK :      Yes, this one.

KM :      You know tūtū when were talking once before, you had mentioned some place names but I wasn’t able to mark it on a map. Did you tell me about a place name Piele or something?

MK :      Piele . . . [thinking] You know where the Hikiau heiau is?

KM :      Yes. [opens Register Map No. 1595]

MK :      Okay you keep coming and then . . . Piele, Piele, Kiloa.

KM :      Ahh.

MK :      And [thinking] oh boy something . . . [thinking] and then the pier.

KM :      ‘Ae, here’s the pier.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      So Piele was near the boundary?

MK :      Piele. Yes near the boundary of . . . in fact it’s part of the boundary where the prison was.

KM :      Ahh, okay I see.

MK :      And why they call that Piele because way up they had potato fields.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      And then the Hawaiians used to live up there, the commoners, maka‘āinana.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      So they are the ones that do all the work and the ‘ulu and all, they plant all that.

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      But when they had the ali‘is fighting and all that, so they found one cave up there. And they hid in the cave. So while up there, they were using the potatoes for food.

KM :      Hmm.

MK :      And after the war when they went down and then Kalani‘ōpu‘u look at them they looked you know real good.

KM :      Healthy, yeah?

MK :      Yes. Better than the beach people. Because the beach people looked so lean, helpless, and no more food and all that. So, he asked them, "how did they live, how can they be so . . ." like that.

KM :      Uh-hmm.

MK :      They look normal because that’s when they take all their whatever they plant down to the king.

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      Then they hear from maka‘āinana said because they stayed in the cave, and to be quiet, they lit the fire at night and cooked their potatoes. When the potatoes were done they take two stones, those big round stones. One flat and one round one and they just roll, no more sound. Although all pu‘upu‘u.

KM :      ‘Ae, ‘ae.

MK :      And so that’s what they lived on, on that, and even the ‘ulu they did the same thing. And even their lū‘au they can cook and the potato shoots and all that. They had food for themselves.

KM :      Uh-hmm.

MK :      So that’s why they named that place Piele.

KM :      So Piele ’cause that’s a potato, sweet potato pudding or mash like, poi like, yeah?

MK :      Uh-hmm.

KM :      Ohh.

MK :      And that’s what the people were living on. So, he told them that they were wise but they hid because otherwise the enemy find them.

KM :      ‘Ae, yes. So you think this was Kalani‘ōpu‘u time?

MK :      Yes, that’s what we were told.

KM :      This map [Register Map No. 1595] shows the old pond, the fishpond by Hikiau that you were telling me about.

MK :      Yes.

KM :      Here’s the old prison before.

MK :      Yes, in the back.

KM :      Yes, in the back.

MK :      And old Greenwell said, "No such thing . . .!"

KM :      No, had, had.

MK :      Yes. Because the cement was still there you know when we were kids.

KM :      ‘Ae. Hmm.

MK :      And every time when we do something wrong our kūkū used to tell us, "Makamake ‘oukou hele mahope, me ke kepalō? Nunui ka maka, a ‘ula‘ula!" [chuckling]

KM :      [chuckling] ‘Ae. Well you know even with that, with Kealakekua, Heakekua, the beach area and stuff you know they talk about po‘e akua.

MK :      And that fishpond, Li‘iloa.

KM :      ‘Ae, Li‘iloa.

MK :      But they called that, Kalua‘ōpae.

KM :      Ah, Kalua‘ōpae.

MK :      Greenwell had that, I said, "No, that’s not the name." He said, "That is!" I said, "No. Because that fishpond belonged to Kalani‘ōpu‘u."

KM :      ‘Ae.

MK :      "And his kahuna was taking care of that fishpond. No tell me that because we grew up over there and we knew what it was." And in this fishpond the bottom, all with ‘alā stones, all different colors. All lined up underneath.

KM :      So it was just like paved?

MK :      Yes.

KM :      The bottom of the pond.

MK :      Before when we go swimming in the bay pau we jump in there, and that’s what we used to do. Play who can get more white or step, touch more red and all like that, you know. Because it’s kind of deep.

KM :      ‘Ae. Were there other springs out around along the shore near you folks. Did all the houses have little waterholes and things?

MK :      Well, where Kamaile is staying now.

KM :      Yes.

MK :      We had one hold there. But my grandfather’s brother-in-law who was a Japanese, and without his wife knowing, he went and built an out house on that.

KM :      ‘Auwē!

MK :      So, when my tūtū man went down from mauka here and he saw this house on top there, oh boy, he wanted to beat up his brother-in-law! But the brother-in-law took off, came up mauka. So he says, "Oh, because that’s the water he depended on."

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      And that’s where Gordon claimed that had all iwi and right up to where the tomb is and over there have one foundation. I say, "No, that’s not. Only the tomb kept." And then my grandfather had it sealed because every time the door opened somebody died.

KM :      Ah, aloha.

MK :      So he had it sealed. His mother was the last one to go in there, and then pau. That used to be, wait, we had [thinking] a high house, it was in the back of the back room. And that’s where the tomb is. And where that foundation is, that’s where the house was.

KM :      Ah.

MK :      And then used to have one ‘ōhai tree right mauka side of the house. And then my tūtū man had a horse over there, you know, the kind they sharpen the saw.

KM :      Yes, yes.

MK :      Yes, that’s where. You know, I never seen that and I never tell about that all my life I grew up. Until one night I had a dream about that place, and I couldn’t get over. You know if stayed in my mind until morning and I sketched it down. I have it in this picture book.

KM :      Oh wow, that’s wonderful!

MK :      I got it over there . . .

KM :      . . . That’s wonderful. Good memory. All of you folks, like you described before, all along here out to Ke‘ei all pili?

MK :      All family.

KM :      All family.

MK :      Two sides, yeah. Was my mother’s side . . .

KM :      Well your Tūtū Kalokuokamaile was something, too.

MK:      And then of course my father’s side . . . And Kalokuokamaile, before when they had that revolution going on in Ka‘ū, and then there was a king there, Kū‘ahu‘ula.

KM:      ‘Ae.

MK:      He had a son Kahelemauna, I think. And then Kahelemauna had a daughter Kaupī. And then Kaupī was his only daughter, so when the time that revolution went on, he brought her to Kalani‘ōpu‘u’s court to be kept there. So at that time Kamehameha was there as a young man. So when he saw her he fell in love with her. So he got her pregnant. When he got her pregnant, the father found out, so after the war he had to let her go back. And the war was pau already. So when Kamehameha found out that she went back . . . Well anyway, first, her father didn’t want Kamehameha to know where she was, so he mated her out to one commoner by the name of Pōhaku.

KM:      Hmm.

MK:      In Ka‘ū. And this man somehow after she gave birth. When she gave birth, Kamehameha sent his trusted servant, that was Hoapili and his wife to go over there and get that baby. Whether boy or girl bring it back. So, somehow he got word that she gave birth. So he went. When they went they got the baby, brought it back and let him know and he told them to go to Ho‘olehua, Hōlualoa Beach, it’s a secluded place and that’s where they brought this girl up.

KM:      For real, oh!

MK:      Uh-hmm. And that was Luhikau.

KM:      Luhikau.

MK:      Because at that time they were searching out all the royal, even if they have ’em with a commoner or whatever, but in this case was royal so they went hunting for theirs. They know that Kaupī had a baby, ’cause she was pregnant when she went back. They know. But where the baby went nobody knows, but that’s where this girl was brought up. And then as she grew up the government changed each time. Well Kamehameha was getting wild and all that. But he kept her secluded all the time never wanted anything to happen. So that’s where she grew up, and then somehow the palace government started to come out and look for the royal people and all that, and what they should have and all that so this man Palau, he used to be in the palace, too. Him and another man I forgot his name, Hawaiian. And so when he came out and then that’s when the King gave him [Palau] the ahupua‘a.

KM:      Hmm.

MK:      When he met this Luhikau, he wanted to marry her. So they were mated, and his name was Timoteo Palau. So when they were mated that’s how he was given that ahupua‘a.

KM:      ‘Ae. This Kahauloa section, yeah?

MK:      Yes.

KM:      Kahauloa iki I think.

MK:      Right. Go all the way up past Maunalei. I forgot the name of one more place, way up, that’s the center.

KM:      ‘Ae.

MK:      It’s right below Mauna Loa. I forgot the name. But until there. They call that the center of the island. So, okay then they lived and then she had children and one of the girls married Auko‘o. That’s the one taught me the lomilomi great-great grandpa. And all the ho‘oponopono and all that. And then from him came my grandma’s grandma Kahinu, and then from Kahinu comes my grandma that one there [pointing to picture].

KM:      ‘Ae.

MK:      Right over here that’s one picture I have there. That’s my mother’s mother. Then come my mother then me.

KM:      And where was Kalokuokamaile in that?

MK:      Okay. Kalokuokamaile, when Kaupī was mated to Pōhaku, he was the child.

KM:      Ahh.

MK:      In other words he and Luhikau would be half-sister and brother, see.

KM: &